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  #51  
Old 09-02-10, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krouxsa View Post
Hi Guys

Just spoke to Dean from UDF about also installing the Filters into my Hilux.

He is extremely helpful and explains all with regards to current Filter vs the Current filter + UDF Filter.

I will certainly use the service. I just bought myself a 2nd hand 3.0 D-4D Hilux and will most certainly install the UDF setup that this topic describes.

Thanks alot Dean and thanks to all the other information of fellow forumites. This is probably the best place to start off when buying a bakkie!!!

Kris
Yip! Dean is bringing mine today.

Uys

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  #52  
Old 09-02-10, 12:33 PM
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Hi Uys,

Ek oorweeg ook 'n ekstra filter. As ek reg onthou het jy ook 'n tweede battery. Waar gaan jou ekstra filter inpas?

Tobie
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  #53  
Old 09-02-10, 12:40 PM
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Tobie.

Dean is nou oppad om dit af te lewer. EK si nog nie seker nie, sal sien as ek dit het, maar tien teen een voor tussen die hoof battery en die radiator.

Kyk ook hierna:

http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/...ad.php?t=50993

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  #54  
Old 10-02-10, 07:50 AM
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Just got an e-mail from Stewart. His car is running very nicely, but now his dad's car has the same problem. So he will be bringing it down towards the end of the month.

I did his dad's car as well. Also took another kit with him up north. So hopefully they will not have D4D injector problems any more.

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  #55  
Old 01-04-10, 07:00 AM
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Got a phone call from Uys yesterday afternoon.

He has no "scientific proof" but the "seat of his pants" says that the car is running better.

I don't argue with my "seat of my pants"

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  #56  
Old 01-04-10, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henris View Post
Got a phone call from Uys yesterday afternoon.

He has no "scientific proof" but the "seat of his pants" says that the car is running better.

I don't argue with my "seat of my pants"
"the seat of my pants" says my car is pulling like a train and revving like a Ferrari!

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  #57  
Old 01-04-10, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henris View Post
Got a phone call from Uys yesterday afternoon.

He has no "scientific proof" but the "seat of his pants" says that the car is running better.

I don't argue with my "seat of my pants"
Hi Henris

I also fitted UDF's on my Hilux. Does this mean that the evidence provided by Dean and the guys at UDF are fabricated? What they showed me was pretty convincing but of course it could have been made up but I strongly doubt it reading comments, testimonials by other people as well as driving my Vehicle.
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  #58  
Old 01-04-10, 09:26 AM
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krouxsa....Henris put on a the udf filter for me about 2/3 months ago. First a Water trap with a 20 micron filter....2nd the OEM filter....3rd the udf filter....after 7/8k the udf was black with dirt and needed to be replaced. No problem of course, just proves the fact that despite 2 "standard" pre filters dirt still got through to the UDF and was stopped. Also bear in mind I am in Zim and we have pretty dirty fuel. Hilux is running very well..
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  #59  
Old 01-04-10, 11:15 AM
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Thanks Paul

I'm not doubting the fact that it stops all the dirt. It has done wonders on my car, can feel it. Yet to change my filters. Done about 5000kms. Maybe the two tests by UDF and UYS was done differently perhaps?
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  #60  
Old 01-04-10, 11:28 AM
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My injektors het ook gegroet, op 100 000Km 6 maande buite waarborg, TSA het uiteindelik geoffer om helfte te betaal. Die handelaar het besluit om die parte teen waarborg prys uit te book en nie vol retail prys nie. Ek betaal nou R 6 900 van die R 16 000 wat gekwiteer is deur ‘n ander handelaar. Dit is vir al 4 injektors en pype.

Waar kan ek die filters laat installeer soos deur Botswana voorgestel
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  #61  
Old 30-09-10, 11:56 AM
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Hi Henris My 3.0D4D developed injector problems. I am looking for contacts to procure the injectors and filter system as in the the case of Stewart. My situation is worse. I cannot drive it down south, so I want to come and buy the components. Also what is the estimated cost of the components?
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  #62  
Old 30-09-10, 12:04 PM
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Ok. I will get hold of Brian and start arrangening things.

The filters I have with me.

I am in Durban at the moment, but will let you know as soon as I get back to Musina.

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  #63  
Old 30-09-10, 12:10 PM
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I got a phone call from Uys 4 days ago. He did a trip via Phalaborwa, back to Pta. He put in diesel in 3 diff places and by the time he got back to Pta, the car would barely run. Changed the filter and the car was 100% again.

He then took it to Toyota to test the injectors and the verdict was that the injectors were 100%. This after 100,000km. He then pointed out the filter as well as that he runs 2stroke in the diesel. The mechanic was amased and had never hear of either.

Moral of the story. It really works.

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  #64  
Old 13-10-10, 05:38 PM
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Hi Henris My vehicle first failed 2 injectors, not complete failure but the vehicle was as aggressive as it should be. I replaced the 2 injectors with second hand ones from an accident damaged vehicle. I did 5,000km then from nowhere, heard a loud knocking sound, vehicle not revving producing heavy black smoke. Upon inspection I found out that it was one of the injectors I had not replaced. I isolated the injector and managed to get home on 3 injectors. I then replaced the injector with one of my old ones then another gave me the same problem. Now I have 2 injectors which are fair and the vehicle cannot start. That's why I can drive it to SA. So I want to replace all the injectors with new ones. People are praising your system, I also want one.
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  #65  
Old 13-10-10, 06:11 PM
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Well come down and get it.

So you need 4 injectors and a filter? Do you need a water trap as well?

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  #66  
Old 15-10-10, 11:11 AM
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I need 4 injectors and filter system, (the CF1000, the UDF filters and a small electric lift pump.) I want to come prepared, it will help me to know the cost of the items, and address.
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  #67  
Old 15-10-10, 08:09 PM
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Ok. I will send you all the figures in the morning.

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  #68  
Old 15-10-10, 08:45 PM
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Where can you buy filters like these?

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  #69  
Old 15-10-10, 08:48 PM
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UDF. Get hold of Dean Puntis.
0836777909
deanp@udfiltration.co.za
www.udfiltration.com

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  #70  
Old 15-10-10, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4ePajero View Post
Deon,

This forum unfortunately (for some, and fortunately for others), expose the truth.

The following truths are some of those exposed:
  • Mitsu 4m40 engines (2800 TD) prior to 2003 had a head problem, especially if fitted in the Colts
  • ditto tor the KZTE engine
  • LR wiring looms get ruined by oil ingress
  • Toyota 2.8 and3.0 diesel engines suffer from overheating
  • Pajero Gen3 & Gen4 lose rear bumpers in off-road conditions
  • Freelanders are risky purchases
  • D4D engine had injector problems
  • some Fortuners (especially older ones) had a stability problem on washboard gravel roads
  • VW V10 TDi Touaregs are not good waders
  • etc
What did I miss?
Donner !!!! en hulle se Toyotas is betroubaar en gebou om te hou, obviously sien ek anders as die res.

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  #71  
Old 16-10-10, 11:49 AM
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Koos Best ,
I totaly agree with you . Toyota was the best , if you look at the Toyota
forum it is on of the most problamatic brands today. Yes Toyota`s used to be tough but that was years ago . I myself was a huge Toyota fan but being involved with a close friends fight with Toyota, I called them farewell. I think it is realy only the name they made in the past that keep them goining today. I take my hat of for the loyal Toyota supporters. They are willing to modify and rectify their vehicles at their own cost.
Surrely if it was not for them they Toyota was a long gonner.

grips
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  #72  
Old 16-10-10, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grips View Post
Koos Best ,
I totaly agree with you . Toyota was the best , if you look at the Toyota
forum it is on of the most problamatic brands today. Yes Toyota`s used to be tough but that was years ago . I myself was a huge Toyota fan but being involved with a close friends fight with Toyota, I called them farewell. I think it is realy only the name they made in the past that keep them goining today. I take my hat of for the loyal Toyota supporters. They are willing to modify and rectify their vehicles at their own cost.
Surrely if it was not for them they Toyota was a long gonner.

grips
Grips WHICH vehicle can you buy today that does not need to be modified before taking it off road ?

I dont see Toyota as being on some pedastal - but I dont see any other brand being consistenty "better" than Toyota either.

ALL brands have issues, this week there were another set of recalls on BMW and Mercedes cars. 90% of the gripes here and on other forums relates to PATHETIC dealers - again ALL brands
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  #73  
Old 16-10-10, 12:56 PM
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On the modifying bit.

Well, lets go back to Land Cruiser.
They come std with those marie biscuits. Then you use your kidneys for shocks. That is why I go for bigger tyres.
They come std without a radio. I sometimes listen to some music.
They come std without a winch. Sometimes there are guys, other than LC, that need to be rescued.
They come std with 180l diesel on board. I want to add another 120l.

The list goes on. Do I need to elaborate?

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  #74  
Old 17-10-10, 06:46 AM
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Hernis ,
I am not on a band bashing trip. What was Toyota`s input in the Fortuners debakel ? I bussiness for 15 years and owened 36 bakkies in total. The days that I had to defend centain brands in long arguments is long gone . My views is not sucked from my thumb but from years of experience and logbooks kept for al my vehciles . I have build numeruos 4x4`s and done a lot of conversions . My first v8 conversion was done at the age of 20. When ever I have a change I take part in Dune climb competitions. Deu to the nature of my bussiness I travel up to 30 000 km`s of dirt roads a year. I did drive my share of Toyota`s aswell , but poor service turned me away. There is life after Toyota . Most of my friends still owns Toyota`s. In our area it is general knowlage that the since Toyota converted to front coils , they used a weaker front diff on the Cruiser . I witnessed a stripped front diffs especialy on the 4.5 EFI. All diesel Cruisers came with a gearbox flaw . A lug in the gearbox tends to break of and then ruins the gearbox . This usely hapens past the 100 000 km mark which leave you with the cost of a new gearbox. A lot of Cruiser develop cracks and some even break of at the ball of the front diff. This pheonomen usely happens to one `s travelling a fare amount of dirt roads. Did I mention the breaking of the rear leave springs ? Hernis the days that you travelled 300 000 + km in a Cruiser with no repairs are gone. Toyota is aware of the problems I mentioned but have done nothing about any. Yes I admit that even with everything said the Cruiser is still one of the best 4x4`s availible in our market but it is defenitley not the Alpha and Omega.
grips
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  #75  
Old 18-10-10, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisF View Post
Grips WHICH vehicle can you buy today that does not need to be modified before taking it off road ?
I know of quite a few.
  • DEFENDER
  • PATROL
  • WRANGLER
  • CRUISER 70/76/80
  • GELANDENWAGEN
  • F250
The no 1 vehicle that needs THE MOST mods must be a Fortuner.

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  #76  
Old 28-09-12, 12:48 PM
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There is much sense in buying a G-wagen, especially the beastly ''Proffessional'' G300. That is, if you really NEED a sturdy 4x4. Spend the price, keep it well maintained and be content with it for the next three decades. It sadly is the ONLY vehicle engineered to last. I just love TLC, LR, etc., but longevity is not negotiable. As TLC76 is built in China, what do we expect? Rather spend less, get a GWM and it may take you far and may prove to be as reliable as the modern day Toyota, but at half the price. If you have an old Toyota in good nick, rebuild it when the time comes but never let go of it.
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  #77  
Old 28-09-12, 12:58 PM
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Mr Jake Venter, technical guru of leading motoring magazines, is an engineer by proffession and he denounces the use of two-stroke oil in modern Diesel engines. It can damage modern systems. Use it on your W123 300D if you like. Also, if you have been adding it for 3 decades and had no mechanical failures, the success cannot be ascribed to the 2SO by default. Other factors may have been involved and there still is no control study sans 2SO to prove its proclaimed efficiency.

Sulphur in Diesel is a lubricant; dirt particles are found even in 50ppm and that is where the problem lies. Get a UDF system to prevent premature wear and component failure.

Blindly following tradition never is a good approach. One has to get down to the scientific facts and deal with that.
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  #78  
Old 28-09-12, 01:32 PM
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BosDonkie (and Jake!) for president!

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  #79  
Old 28-09-12, 06:04 PM
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I came across this injector issue while researching a TLC diff issue.


If anyone can assist with a sober assessment, please see my post at http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/...49#post1309349
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  #80  
Old 28-09-12, 06:34 PM
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Just like no one can "proof" that 2so helps, where is the "proof" that it damages modern diesel engines ?

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  #81  
Old 28-09-12, 07:54 PM
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Jaco, one may sometimes be influenced by culture or tradition. Trust me not as I am but a novice.


As for Mr Jake Venter, he has 77 years of intimate experience plus proffessional education. I have also received a similar response from technical experts at a leading oil company. They know the chemical processes that take place during and after combustion, what residu is formed and how it will affect engine components. If 2so had any benefit, it would have been added to Diesel fuel at the refinery!



Sorry, buddy talk and simply following habits of others don't always make sense. Science eventually wins over sentiments.

When you have a closer look at the differences in technological design past and present, it is rather obvious that old habits become obsolete. Will you put your next year's salary in escrow at a lawyer to stand good for damages suffered by anyone who had followed your advice?

Don't deal with opinion. Opinion is always biased. Approach any matter scientifically, deal with the facts.

How many seasoned engineers with at least a B.Sc.Eng qualification or a T6 in Mechanical Engineering add 2SO to their vehicles' Diesel?

I am a retired internal auditor who researches a subject from cradle to grave. If all real experts and not Big Boet warns against the use of 2SO in modern Diesel engines, I am humble enough to respect their superior knowledge. If the chemical engineer at a leading oil company unwittingly agrees with Oom Jake, there is almost no way that both can be wrong. When other technical experts at the same oil company agree, there must be a good reason.

If you disagree, contact Mr Jake Venter with the necessary scientific proof. If he endorses it and LW publishes it as gospel truth, you will have won me over.

I can't help but wonder how many Hilux owners had switched to other brands because of failed injectors, caused by 2so or other additives. Divorcing Toyota for a lesser brand will bring frustration in the end. While Toy isn't what it used to be, fleet owners still prove the Hilux to be superior, by using data accumulated from logbooks. Many marital divorcees take the root cause of breaking up into their subsequent marriages. The same will be happening here. As far as I can see, the next brand does not have much of a chance to be an improvement, either. Almost all Japs, including Toyota, suffer from parts collected from the Chinese bin. Some TLC76's are even being built in China.



No automaker makes its own injectors and there aren't many injector makers around. It is a universal risk.


I just wonder how many injectors have failed, how many car brands have been slammed and how many divorces from otherwise reliable brands had taken place where the root cause was damage from all sorts of untested, unproven additives? Are some Toy owners ''guilty'' of bringing their own beloved brand into disrepute due to their own erroneous beliefs?.

Last edited by BosDonkie; 29-09-12 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 03-10-12, 09:28 AM
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According to the technical experts and engineers, 2so may also impact upon the efficiency of your exhaust CAT, resulting in costly repairs/replacements. Perhaps so harm was done to your older vehicle but it seems prudent to treat your new Diesel according to the manufacturer's recommendations found in the owners' manuals.
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Old 06-10-12, 03:25 PM
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I had a response from ShellSA yesterday, in which they advise vehicle owners to follow OEM manuals and not use anything outside of OEM specification.
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Old 08-10-12, 02:25 PM
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Mercedes-Benz says the same as Shell SA.

In general MBSA has not noted any abnormal failures on injectors in its diesel powered vehicles. The filters on our vehicles traps the dirt before it can enter the high pressure part of the fuel system. Bear in mind that the injectors are made up of moving components so there will be an amount of acceptable wear which means that at some stage in the vehicles life the injectors will require maintenance or replacement.

The use of any non Mercedes-Benz additive is not recommended. The engine and its systems are designed specifically to operate only on Diesel fuel as obtained from reputable service stations, using two-stroke oil or similar additives can cause failure of the injection system or the engine. Using two stroke oil in diesel lowers the lubricating ability of the diesel and damage will occur at the high pressure pump and injectors. Also the two stroke oil will create uncontrolled combustion temperatures and pressures which will damage the catalytic converter and internal engine components.

Yours sincerely,
Mercedes-Benz South Africa (Pty) Ltd
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  #85  
Old 08-10-12, 02:30 PM
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Bosdonkie

Did you really expect them to say anything other than that ?

Let's see, Toyota SA saying....
"We as TSA recommend that you use a dilution of 2SO to care for you injectors as our filters that gets changed every 80,000 are not up to standard and they only filter down to 10 micron even though the injectors is 1 micron.

We would recommend you to ignore what the OEM manual states otherwise and agree that the use of 2SO can extent the life of your Toyota's injectors"

I think not!

BTW: I'm not saying use it or not use it, I'm just saying the dealers nor the fuel supplier is going to acknowledge that their products is not up to standard !

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  #86  
Old 08-10-12, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BosDonkie View Post
Using two stroke oil in diesel lowers the lubricating ability of the diesel and damage will occur at the high pressure pump and injectors.
Yours sincerely,
Mercedes-Benz South Africa (Pty) Ltd
I'm not understanding this part of the statement?
2 Stroke has better lubricating properties than diesel. What am I missing here
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  #87  
Old 08-10-12, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
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I'm not understanding this part of the statement?
2 Stroke has better lubricating properties than diesel. What am I missing here
It's like the toyota workshop manager that told me I should place my extra (2 micron filter) before the OEM filter so that if the extra filter does not filter everything at least we know the OEM filter (10 micron) does it's job.

If the OEM did it's job, it would not be neccesary for a extra one in the first place.

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Old 08-10-12, 05:40 PM
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How can you expect TSA to do that? It would mean that diesel filters would have to be replaced every 10 000km and that would dent their profit margin. Now really
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Old 08-10-12, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Using two stroke oil in diesel lowers the lubricating ability of the diesel and damage will occur at the high pressure pump and injectors.
Rubbish.

USA test results that clearly show increased lubricity of diesel by adding 2SO has been published on this forum.

How on Earth can a manufacturer (motor or oil) admit that their product needs an additive. I have it in writing that my Pajero must have a rattling dash, it is according to spec.

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Old 08-10-12, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BosDonkie View Post
Jaco, one may sometimes be influenced by culture or tradition. Trust me not as I am but a novice.


As for Mr Jake Venter, he has 77 years of intimate experience plus proffessional education. I have also received a similar response from technical experts at a leading oil company. They know the chemical processes that take place during and after combustion, what residu is formed and how it will affect engine components. If 2so had any benefit, it would have been added to Diesel fuel at the refinery!



Sorry, buddy talk and simply following habits of others don't always make sense. Science eventually wins over sentiments.

When you have a closer look at the differences in technological design past and present, it is rather obvious that old habits become obsolete. Will you put your next year's salary in escrow at a lawyer to stand good for damages suffered by anyone who had followed your advice?

Don't deal with opinion. Opinion is always biased. Approach any matter scientifically, deal with the facts.

How many seasoned engineers with at least a B.Sc.Eng qualification or a T6 in Mechanical Engineering add 2SO to their vehicles' Diesel?

I am a retired internal auditor who researches a subject from cradle to grave. If all real experts and not Big Boet warns against the use of 2SO in modern Diesel engines, I am humble enough to respect their superior knowledge. If the chemical engineer at a leading oil company unwittingly agrees with Oom Jake, there is almost no way that both can be wrong. When other technical experts at the same oil company agree, there must be a good reason.

If you disagree, contact Mr Jake Venter with the necessary scientific proof. If he endorses it and LW publishes it as gospel truth, you will have won me over.

I can't help but wonder how many Hilux owners had switched to other brands because of failed injectors, caused by 2so or other additives. Divorcing Toyota for a lesser brand will bring frustration in the end. While Toy isn't what it used to be, fleet owners still prove the Hilux to be superior, by using data accumulated from logbooks. Many marital divorcees take the root cause of breaking up into their subsequent marriages. The same will be happening here. As far as I can see, the next brand does not have much of a chance to be an improvement, either. Almost all Japs, including Toyota, suffer from parts collected from the Chinese bin. Some TLC76's are even being built in China.



No automaker makes its own injectors and there aren't many injector makers around. It is a universal risk.


I just wonder how many injectors have failed, how many car brands have been slammed and how many divorces from otherwise reliable brands had taken place where the root cause was damage from all sorts of untested, unproven additives? Are some Toy owners ''guilty'' of bringing their own beloved brand into disrepute due to their own erroneous beliefs?.
Bos donkie,

Research from cradle to grave this is not, more like regurgetaing the BS these so called experts has been feeding you. Coming from a financial back ground does give you a tad bit of a disadvantage on this subject.
- If the burnt off products of the 2SO were so detremental then why is it on the market at all? And its not rocket science, it's called "pyrolises gas chromatography"and any chemist can help you with the interpretation.
- And for the engineers and BSc graduates not using 2SO - would it be the same lot that designed a 50 micron filter to protect a 1 micron hole? (or the rear suspension on the Fortuner?)
- Anything mechanical that is well or over lubricated WILL last longer. So shuving a 50 micron silica boulder down a 1 micron tube will react different with and without added lubrication - the time frame of he damage will only differ.
- you brought up Mr. Jake Venter and the oil company expert, so please publish the scientific findings.

We are all inquisitve minds that would like to know more.

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Old 10-10-12, 11:03 AM
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I'll take my chances with 2SO after finding this literature...
http://www.arb.ca.gov/fuels/gasoline...22003bosch.pdf

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Old 10-10-12, 11:23 AM
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It is not comfortable, but it is possible to filter your fuel, before it reach the tank:



http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Funnel-AF15...ef=pd_sim_lg_3

I have bought this thing, for crossing africa. But for shure, for all day it isnt really comfortable

And i`m not shure, if this device stops stuff bigger than 1 micron, or not.

Surfy


Edit: Here they say: 5 microns

Last edited by Surfy; 10-10-12 at 11:28 AM. Reason: Give a link about filtering...
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Old 10-10-12, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Russell View Post
I'll take my chances with 2SO after finding this literature...
http://www.arb.ca.gov/fuels/gasoline...22003bosch.pdf
That literature supports that the HFRR reading for diesel should be 460 maximum. Nowhere that I could see does it advocate using 2so.

SANS 342 is the specification for diesel in South Africa. The maximum HFRR reading is set at 460, which makes the use of 2so redundant, in my opinion, of course.
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Old 10-10-12, 12:05 PM
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That literature supports that the HFRR reading for diesel should be 460 maximum. Nowhere that I could see does it advocate using 2so. Didn't say it did.

SANS 342 is the specification for diesel in South Africa. The maximum HFRR reading is set at 460, which makes the use of 2so redundant, in my opinion, of course.
True and I agree, but surely the wearscare will be less with enhanced lubricity - induced by 2SO or any other additive - thus prolonging pump and injector life.

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Old 10-10-12, 12:31 PM
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I can only give my personal experience. My Mahindra Scorpio 2.6 diesel now has 100 000km on the clock. It always gets a bottel of 2SO added when filling up. I only use 500ppm diesel. My engine runs as smooth as butter! It does not smoke, not at startup or while running. I get 11.6 km per litre at 120km/hour. Is 2SO good or bad? I don't know? in 6 years and 100 000km no problems?? What I can vouch for is that my Mahindra does sound a lot more smoother when it is idling than my colleagues Mahindra's. I don't have that extreme "tractor" like sound. I will post again after another 100 000km and report on any smoking etc.

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Old 10-10-12, 12:38 PM
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Now back to the thread heading. D4d injector failures.

My dad drives a 2.5 D4D as a company vehicle. It is constantly heavily loaded and has a canopy with ladders on the roof. He fills with whatever diesel he can find.

First problem happened on 101000km. Vehicle grinded to a halt, with fuel filter light burning. He phoned Toyota and yes, as you guessed: "Sir, we don't change fuel filters under the maintenance plan". Thanks for telling me now..... I am stranded between Brandvlei and Calvinia.....

Second time on 165000km, fuel filter blocked.

Bakkie still running, working hard and no smoking........

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Old 10-10-12, 03:39 PM
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Mahindra on 500ppm gets more sulphur to lubricate. Of course it can run smooth(er.) Mahindra Scorpio has impressed me before; I am a great lover of TLC and G-wagen. Scorpio has solid mechanicals.

Toyota's service attitude seem to differ from that of M-B. One cannot compare their views with that of Merc.


I have also used additives on my older Mercs but would not consider doing the same on a new(er) one. The engineering is too refined now for me to take chances. For the record, I also do have a technical qualification with math and science. That puts me ahead of many back yard mechanics in terms of education but it also makes me no wiser than anyone else. What I learn here is not to trust a maintenance plan but to take responsibility yourself. 500ppm offers better lubrication but will strangle your cat. The 2so debate will never be over and that in itself will keep us using grey matter.

If I follow Toyota's logic, keep the milk but feed the cow the cream to prevent the udder from blockage.
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Old 10-10-12, 03:50 PM
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MB OM642 3l V6 CDR engine is used in various configurations from the C-class to Jeep Commander. 3 cars, each with this engine fitted, set new world records and each went almost half a million km. Google it for further info.

The use of urea, etc., proved its worth during this test.


..
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Old 10-10-12, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BosDonkie View Post
Sulphur in Diesel is a lubricant
Sorry, BosDonkie, this just proves that you should practise what you preach and not just take anything that is said at face value. You should probably have researched the lubricating properties of sulphur before posting on here as the truth according to you that sulphur is a lubricant. You stated that fact with no scientific proof whatsoever, yet you demand proof from the 2SO proponents?

Sulphur in diesel is NOT a lubricant. The process of removing sulphur from diesel also affects the diesel's lubricating properties, which the fuel companies then have to rectify by putting lubricating additives back into the diesel.

So your other point that the Mahindra runs smoother because of the fact that there's more sulphur in the 500PPM diesel to lubricate the injectors is simply not correct.

Last edited by Frontiersman; 10-10-12 at 05:26 PM.
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Old 10-10-12, 07:04 PM
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Frontiersman, thanks for pointing out my 500pppm error. Same error was adopted from ''experts'' frequenting the forum, some who also promote the use of 2so.

The USA tests referred to doesn't impress as we have seen thousands of similar ''scientifich'' reports from USA-based vendors wanting to swing your mind to swirl a dollar from your pocket into theirs.


Under what conditions does 2so improve lubricity? And the oil company would have added it to their fuel if there was value in it. A UK-based friend who has commissioned a number of oil refineries through his career of 30 years as well as another in Germany who has been liaison between major US, Canadian and European energy companies on one hand and Transneft on the other, as well as being a personal friend of more than one ruler in the Middle East, also holds the same opinion. The German spent 45 years in the industry and is very knowledgeable. None of my associates in the oil industry believe that 2so or other additives should be used. The practice to do so is rooted in belief, not fact. My point is that modern Diesel engines are engineered to the most exact specifications and minute tolerances. After having taken that much trouble, why would MB, for instance, not add a 3d tank for 2so as they have added the urea one?


Canola oil is said to be more healthy than sunflower oil. However, it oxidises at a much lower temperature and becomes an unhealthy substance. 2so at x temp and y pressuree will most likely act differently at x a temp and y z psi.

1HZ is much different from what Audi, BMW or MB have under the hood. D4D is fairly new to Toyota and maybe that brand did not undertake sufficient R&D or testing? In the end, whether one wants to use additives or not, we need a scientifically researched answer as we all would love to see our braai buddies being saved the understated inconvenience of engine trouble in Kaokoland or the Richtersveld. We want to see our mates leisurely enjoy the sunset with a sizzly on the braai and a coolant in his hand. For human consumption.

Trial and error could be costly. It is 2012 and we have a little buggy traversing Mars while we cannot trust our TLC to take us to nearby Botswana and back. The mere fact that we are even having this conversation is because someone is not taking us for a return ride.

Who is being treated with the utmost disloyal irreverence? The almost fanatical Toyota fan club! If this doesn't swing them around, nothing will.

It surely gave Camp LR something new to chat about. It also seems that the final truth remains elusive.
































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